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Buried among the massive dump of new Epstein files from the US Department of Justice, there is a text message exchange between Steve Bannon, the former strategist for Donald Trump, and paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
In the messages, Bannon boasts that he spoke to Australian billionaire mining magnate Clive Palmer on his disruptive $80 million advertising campaign during the 2019 federal election, which former Labor leader Bill Shorten lost to Scott Morrison.
Speaking with host Jacqueline Maley and chief political correspondent Paul Sakkal in a new Inside Politics podcast episode, Bill Shorten, who is now vice chancellor of Canberra University, addresses his “wild” reference in the Epstein files.
He also reflects on his “audacious” economic and tax reform agenda that Treasurer Jim Chalmers is believed to be replicating seven years after voters rejected it, and what he thinks lies ahead for the Liberal-National Coalition. Shorten’s advice? “Underestimate Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce at your peril.”
Click the player below to listen to the full episode, or read on for an edited extract of the conversation.
Maley: Do you think, in terms of the ructions within the Liberal-National Coalition at this moment of recording, that we’re looking at a historic rearrangement of the right wing of Australian politics? Can the Liberals fight their way out of this?
Sakkal: Well, in terms of if they do split in a long-term sense, there are people in the Liberal Party worried about a 1950s Labor-style moment where the centre-right fractures for a longer period of time and that entrenches Labor dominance.
I suspect the Coalition will not be apart for that long. I don’t think it will be patched up this week. I mean, the absurdity of the back and forth between Sussan Ley and David Littleproud is slightly nauseating, and the squabbling over process and party procedure is really difficult to follow. But there’s a personality dispute at the heart of it between the two leaders. They don’t get along, and they’re both boxed themselves in and would struggle to reconcile because that will diminish their authority … they won’t get back together in the next few weeks, I don’t think, but I suspect they’ll patch it up before the next election.
But if it is a longer-term split, Bill, and given what One Nation is doing at the moment, how do you see the centre-right faring for the next period?
Shorten: Well, the right of Australian politics have split in the past. Menzies only founded the Liberal Party just over 80 years ago. Don Chipp and some of the Liberals split in the ’70s. Political parties do split. That’s the first thing. So it’s not unknown. The second thing is underestimate Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce at your peril.
They are saying things which a lot of people just agree with. Like it or not, that’s just what it is. And they have a sense also that these two are not going to change their convictions to suit a particular issue. So, you know, I talk to old members of my union who I used to organise in the bush. They’ve always voted Labor, but they’re thinking about other things, whether or not that’s wise, that’s up to them.
Maley: So what do they say is the appeal of One Nation?
Shorten: I think they just think that Hanson calls it as it is. Now, the thing is, saying everything that you think in your head aloud isn’t necessarily what people do. And there’s a good reason why we don’t. Because you then think about it. But without getting into who’s right and who’s wrong, she has some appeal. So I think the Coalition need to be careful of that.
I’m not going to predict the demise of the Liberal Party or the National Party. But I would say this is a serious issue … if it goes one way, it’s … [a] planet extinction level event for the Coalition. So they’re going to need to get their act together quickly.
But the real challenge, I think, for Labor is that with the Coalition being at sixes and sevens, we’ve got to be careful … a good government needs a strong opposition. And one of the anxieties I feel for some of my colleagues is that what if the Liberal vote falls, that they no longer come second in some of our safer seats, and there’s a sort of militia of third parties come together.
What Australians want is stability and focus on cost of living. Coalition disunity may be good for some memes, and there were some pretty good one-liners in Parliament. But when you’ve got cost of living interest rates, I think a strong opposition is necessary for a strong government.
To hear more from Bill Shorten about Steve Bannon, Clive Palmer and Jeffrey Epstein, plus the potential upcoming changes to the 50 per cent capital gains tax discount on investments, listen to the podcast episode in the player above or click here.
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Paul Sakkal is chief political correspondent. He previously covered Victorian politics and has won Walkley and Quill awards. Reach him securely on Signal @paulsakkal.14Connect via X or email.From our partners
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